Hey Friends,
On Sunday morning I got a less than ideal comment on one of my blog posts. In response, I’ve decided to scrap today’s post and instead share something that I’ve actually been thinking about for the past 5 years.
I think the thing that hurts me most is when I am misunderstood. It’s easy for me to quickly respond, and it’s even easier for me to be just as mean back.
I can be a sucker for debate.
However, I’m making a decision now—no matter how bad comments get and no matter how much I WANT to respond to everyone and try to get them to see my point of view, I will not be responding to people who do it publicly online. Twitter, Blog, Amazon reviews, and the Unicorn Gazette.
Not because I’m above it (I’m not), but because my hope for us is for the online culture to shift.
I would rather listen to the challenging voices of people who know me. So friends, family, mentors, and all the people who are authority figures in my life by default or invitation, PLEASE call me on anything you see me doing that is wrong.
For the rest of you who have read, written, or received a hurtful comment online, here are my thizzzoughts.
I’m hopeful for better online rhetoric. Let’s speak and think well.
Love and Respect (Now) is a division of Love and Respect. Please be considerate.
From My Heart
All of the Love and Respect Now Posts…In One Place!
Emerson & Sarah Eggerichs on Marriage, Parenting, Family of Origin, Work & Death
Fighting for Love (and Other Potentially Hazardous Cliches)
Wow, thank you Kimberly for those words. Just made my day knowing you watched!
I totally agree. The ability to be online has really changed debate. I think things would be a lot more civil if people had to speak to the other person’s face. They’d probably end up keeping it to themselves. Keep it up and don’t let the trolls get you down.
Yes – I think visualizing face to face is always so helpful! Thank you for your kind words Amanda.
I love this! Very well said and a great challenge! Your breakfast looks amazing too 😉
Thanks Anna! My breakfast obsession is a little out of hand.
You are artful in your speech! Good thoughts. Helpful thoughts. I bet that egg is a little cold now thoughts….xoxo
Sometimes the breakfast has to make sacrifices. SOMETIMES.
Really, really wise thoughts on this. Sadly, I’m sure I’ll be coming back to this as I’ve started to write myself and put my thoughts out there. I SO hear you about how it’s not my friends who don’t know Jesus that I’m worried about but rather the “Online Christians.”
You’re welcome back as often as you need, Andrea!
Do not let the criticism of this world hinder your purpose, which comes from the One who is not of this world. -[From my bumper-sticker brain]. No, but fo’ real:
“Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.” (Isaiah 41:10)
“And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.” (Galatians 6:9)
“So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while.” (1 Peter 1:6)
Thanks Ana! Such good verses. Also love when Jesus told the disciples to remember that when the world hates you, remember that they hated him first.
Matthew 18 isn’t the only model for conflict resolution. We also have Galatians 2:11-13, where Paul recounts his confrontation with Peter. I think the Matthew passage refers to interpersonal sin, while Paul vs. Peter is about teaching the gospel faithfully. Paul was not personally offended by Peter’s actions, he was offended on behalf of the gentiles and the gospel. Peter’s actions and words were public, and so the rebuke had to be public as well.
My point is that there is a time and place for public rebuke without going through the Matthew process.
But people may still abuse that principle in their online blogging and commenting. In the case of Paul and Peter, what was at stake was the gospel itself – Peter’s actions placed a burden on those who would seek Christ, a burden which would harm new believers and even discourage those who would otherwise become believers. The issue was of utmost importance.
In contrast, most of the things we argue about online don’t even come close to that level of importance. But neither are they interpersonal sins. I think most of what we see online qualifies as debate and disagreement. When an idea is put forth publicly, I think it’s normal and healthy for others to engage in the debate publicly. But there are good and bad ways to do that. Running from it under the cover of Matthew 18 isn’t a good way, and justifying an attack with Galatians 2 is even worse. Let’s come to the table with respect for the other person’s dignity and opinion, let’s debate in good will.
In summary, I agree that we can definitely elevate our dialogue and rhetoric in debate and disagreement. There is no need to attack someone “In the name of Christ” just because you didn’t like what you hear (in fact, that is quite harmful to the cause of Christ, as you pointed out). I just disagree about using Matthew 18 as the alternative model.
I hope my words and tone are consistent. I’m really going for “respectful disagreement” and “have you considered this alternative approach, I think it is stronger and more consistent with the whole of Scripture while accomplishing the same goal”. I hope I don’t sound like I’m attacking you. If I do, I’m truly sorry.
Bethany I thought your words were perfect! I didn’t feel attacked at all and actually think we agree I probably just didn’t cover every point because my egg was awaiting my consumption. (-:
I was trying to communicate that I don’t think we should back off from debate, but the how is what is important. When people try to make calls that I’m “sinning” or something like that, that’s when I will not respond and let the people who know me speak into my life. I feel like there are just far too many people playing the authority figures online and calling out sin in scathing ways. But as far as having good debates, I am ALL for that if it’s to challenge each other in ways that help but not hurt. At the end of the day if we all thought the same, that would be a boring world.
Thanks for your words and additions. Keep it coming.
Ah, I didn’t catch that the person said you had done or said something “sinful”. Playing the God card like that is definitely not debating in good faith!
My small group has been going through the book of John. One of the things that comes up is how often Jesus doesn’t publicly call people out for not quite understanding him or for other sins. And when he does, it’s in the gentle, true authority kind of way (woman at the well, woman caught in adultery), and not in the angry, belittling kind of way.
We were just looking at John 8.
At the end of the part about the woman caught in adultery, we get this conversation:
10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”
A few verses later, he makes this interesting statement:
15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father[a] who sent me.”
Our group leader pointed out that Jesus basically said “I didn’t judge that woman just now. But if I had, i would have been correct.
If Jesus, the only one who could perfectly call us all out on our sin, chooses not to do so publicly, we really should pause a moment before we think that publicly accusing someone of sinning is the right or loving thing to do.
So question, are we all now publicly accusing your anonymous commenter of sin? 😛
Good words Bethany! Thank you. And no I’m not calling out sin here at all – he’s free to say what he wants. It just triggered something that I’ve been thinking about and hope my video helps me and everyone think before responding online.
Very well said, Joy. I am incredibly sad that someone would say something hurtful on one of your posts. You have consistently been a wise, caring, and funny presence here. I, too, am continually surprised at the intensity of some people online, for often what seems like completely pointless reasons. And, unfortunately, I’ve often found “christian” commenters can be the worst. They can also sometimes be the best, but when they’re bad, they are really bad. I was so struck by what you said in the video that you are far more scared of what fellow believers would say about your work than anyone else. That’s a similar thought I’ve had for a lot of what I’ve written. I’ve even found myself holding back on saying or writing something particular because I wonder how I will be perceived, not by the world at large, but by the evangelical community.
I completely agree with your call to civility. We always should be aiming to treat every person we interact with, in every way we interact with them, with respect and dignity. That, to me, has always been a given, but I’ve seen, and can somewhat understand, how people can leave that by the wayside, especially when they are arguing about something they feel passionate about. I agree with your point about how the Bible models a way to correct someone: going to them privately, etc. And, in as much as we can, this is a good way to work through disagreements with those we have a relationship with. However, the internet is a funny place. A comment left on a video can be a “light” sort of interaction, it doesn’t take too long and you can be out of there in as fast as it takes to close the window. But an email, as much as it is an electronic form of communication, does seem to carry more weight to it. I’ve often felt much more comfortable having a discussion with someone via comments or tweets than I would in an email, though I admit the latter offers a much greater area to flesh out ideas. Some people may just feel that an email is too personal, even though it can be impersonal. While that doesn’t excuse anyone from being hateful in any context, I can understand why someone might resort to a comment to express disagreement rather than sending an email. The internet presents a wonderful way for people who may feel that they have been marginalized elsewhere to express themselves. Leaving a comment on a blog may seem like nothing to a lot of people, but for someone socially awkward, it might be the bravest thing they’ve ever done. People have a lot to say and I think we should allow them to say it in the way that makes them feel comfortable. Again that doesn’t excuse anyone from acting uncivilly; the fact of the matter is, we will always get some bad ones mixed in with the good, we may even have to dig to find the good, but it’s good that may not have shown up any other way.
The great thing about the internet is that anyone can access and contribute to it. The awful thing about the internet is that anyone can access and contribute to it.
In many ways, we are presented with new challenges via online interaction, but in a lot of ways, we are dealing with the same thing we’ve always dealt with. As I said, we should always seek to be kind to everyone we meet: in person or otherwise. And that goes as much for when we speak as when we are spoken to. You have done, i think, an admirable job here of discussing that. Thank you.
Thank you SO much Douglas. I do agree that the internet is a great way for people to find their voice, especially if they feel scared publicly. I’m thankful for it and I’m thankful for healthy debate and challenging. It’s just so weird that we are all about loving the world as Christians, but less so when it comes to each other. Ha! Appreciate your encouragement and all the best to you in your writing endeavors.
Joy, I was under the impression you had full control of your website, including the ability to moderate, accept, and decline any comments on your site. I don’t see how this was a “public rebuke” when you are able to decline individual comments before others are able to read them. Not everyone knows how to leave you private messages without using your “Ask Joy” section (which you use to create more public videos).
After reading the comment you were referring to and watching the video today, I believe I understand both perspectives. Yes, that commenter could have been more civil as they shared their concerns and feedback, but his comments were directed at your ministry, not at you personally, and though your feelings were hurt, I do think he had concerns worth considering.
In my opinion, you’re response to him that, “Hey! I’m not making you read my site!,” was not very helpful, and it shows that you might not be taking his concerns seriously.
Something that I have noticed many times is that when some men share a “challenging” perspective with you, you respond by making a bunch of videos that talk about “cooperative argumentation,” “rhetoric,” “civility,” and “valuing your “Co-Arguer,” but I’m saddened that those great behaviors and responses you learned in college aren’t being shown to men as much as you might intend. Honestly, sometimes, those moments seem more like you are parading your wonderful education around to encourage men to treat you with “more value,” because you don’t like having your feelings hurt. Your points are valid, but that doesn’t negate the value of your “Co-Arguers.”
For example, the commenter you referenced in this video said, “I have these concerns about your ministry to men…,” and you responded with, “Hey! I’m not making you read my site!” I don’t consider that helpful or respectful! Perhaps, a simple, “Thank you for your feedback! I promise to consider and pray about your concerns, and will make any necessary changes if I feel that God is directing me to do so!,” would have been more helpful and much more respectful to your “valuable Co-Arguer.”
Personally, I would like to see you show the same value and due thoughts, prayers, and consideration for the men who read your site as you do for the ladies, or even for the same value you want your readers to show you personally (as the creation of today’s video so intended.)
Please be willing to consider the views of men you assume you disagree with (or who hurt your feelings) before disregarding the validity of their claims altogether and suggesting they no longer visit your site.
They might see things about your ministry you would be wise to consider – even if you find them to be less than “civil.”
Hey Sam,
Thanks for your feedback as well. I do think in my responses to both female and males that I play devils advocate equally and always push back in an effort to help challenge what I discern may need challenging – but that may simply be subjective to everyone watching and the style to which they learn best. While I do have a pretty balanced male/female readership, females simply write in more often so I respond to their questions more frequently. I also can’t help the fact that I am a female and I am who I am. I will never be able to satisfy everyone – I am prayerful about my responses and I’m sarcastic and use humor to challenge because to me that just keeps things lighter. I also use my parents (who sign off on everything I do) as the gauge for when I’ve gone to far. My humor spread throughout hopefully shows people that I’m trying to keep things light, but I know that can easily be misinterpreted – never my heart to hurt, though.
The commenters note about not listening to female teachers was my reasoning for the confused comment about why he was reading my site to begin with. Hope that helps explain that remark – it was just odd to me.
Thanks for thoughts!
Civility FTW!! 🙂
YEAH!!
I completely agree with you.
I think that you should start a movement on this. It is a worthy cause, more so with all the talk about online bullying and so forth.
Thank you so much for sharing your wise thoughts on this “epidemic”.
Thanks Jacqui! Do you follow Annie Downs? I know she talks about online bullying and may have some good resources if you ever need.
I’m sure all your Amazon reviews are going to be 5 stars, so you won’t have to worry about that at all. 😉
This was a great post, Joy.
As long as you are the only one leaving reviews, this will be true. Thanks lady.
This is such a relevant topic, and I’m really glad you decided to address it. You are wise! Thank you!
Thanks Elizabeth – figured after five years, maybe that was the day to address my concerns. (-:
This is the life lesson I needed schooling on this week. Thank you for this Joy! When I go to my next meeting at work, I’m going to apply your words of wisdom and look at the person who opposes what I say as a person of worth and value.
When it comes to online posting, I try my best and use the “Before you speak: Think” poster
T: Is it true?
H: Is it helpful?
I: Is it inspiring?
N: Is it necessary?
K: Is it kind?
P.S. I’m craving eggs and kale now:)
Ahhh I’m having a flashback to childhood! I think my parents taught me something like this… I don’t think I ever realized it spelled “THINK” though. Guess I wasn’t thinking.
TOTALLY WITH YOU GIRLIE!!! 🙂 Although it is extremely RARE (sad to say), I myself have been “the peeker” and have really enjoyed getting to learn how other Christians will respond to one another when they disagree on something. It’s a beautiful thing and I wish I could peek in on more of that action. Sure, it would be nice to agree a lot more often, but the art of disagreeing in loving and respectful ways seems to intrigue me so much more. Is that wrong or just different? lol 😉
Nice play on the L&R there! My parents would be proud.
I want to show you all of the screenshots of the nasty things people have said about me online, but I deleted them.
I would also like to high five and/or hug you for this post. So wise. Thank you.
Ugh. That makes me sad for you. I just don’t understand sometimes! Keep playin’ that Kazoo girl and if you aren’t already in an improv class… you know what I’m gonna tell you.
High-five all around.
your adorable on Sunday mornings haha. Well said! And your breakfast looked delish minus the running yoke blah;p
I wasn’t a fan of the runny either. I only did scrambled eggs. Then one day on accident I ordered a sandwich from the Fried Egg I’m in Love food cart and was so hungry I had to eat it…AND MY LIFE WAS CHANGED FOREVER.
Maybe we all need to get crowns and be “so soft with our tongues” and by extension, with our typing fingers, our online tongues. 😉
Eww, now I am picturing tiny little tongues on the tips of my fingers as I type. Ha!
All of those breakfast have given you an egg-ceptional imagination! ;)-
BOOM, that was awesome!! I feel for you. It really is not fun to get harsh criticism but it is even more painful to think of anything hurting God’s reputation. God is a big guy and can handle it, but it always breaks my heart to see that happen. People really are watching how we act/react/respond/live, and if we can’t love one another well what are we even doing? Claiming to be in Christ yet not walking in that identity is just…bleh (insert Christian-ese swear word). 🙂 Joy, thank you for responding in a way that truly came from a place of vulnerability and honesty without putting anyone down. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Natalie. Your words encourage me! And if I can tell from the tiny little image right there – you are my friend Natalie from the ranch?? Oh I want to go back.
I did this so I would be accountable with my own words more than anything!!
You found me out =) I want to go back too!! This summer! Just fly right back into paradise.
I need that accountability as well. Feel free to slug me in the arm if you ever hear me being a poo in my words.
wow, lots of great conversation here! i really just want some fried egg action. ps. great, great post, xo.
Haha… It’s a daily meal in my house. I think I have a problem.
Thanks for your words Faith!
Very insightful Joy! It’s so important for us (me first) as Christians to live calculated, Spirit-led lives. It is a spiritual warfare, and the enemy will use whatever He can to tear down the building of the kingdom, numbers wise and conformity to Christ. You reminded me of a post sometime ago which stated the following:
Colossians 4:5-6 says “Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time.” Vs 6) “Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.”
In this scripture, Paul is giving instruction on making the most of our chances to witness to the lost. Wisdom and Grace is involved here. Wisdom is being devoted to and using good sense in interacting with unbelievers, in order to maximize opportunities to witness to them. Grace, for example, deals with politeness, respect, courtesy, patience, forgiveness, and being delightful as we engage with others; our speech should be seasoned with these qualities. We don’t have to compromise God’s truth in the process, but if our speech “tastes” like grace, a person’s heart may be softened to receive what we have to say. (Unquote)
Social media and online comments are like hammers and nails for Christians: They can be used to hang up a beautiful picture of who Christ is, or a portrait that brings shame to the family name…ultimately, Our Father.
Thank you for your post!
I liked this post. You handled it well. Good job.
Joy…I love it…and respect it. And I do that in the now, my friend.
We are certainly products of our society, at least I am. All I learn from TV shows, books, etc. tells me how to communicate poorly (selfishly). Empathy isn’t part of the process when talking with (at) others. I’ve got learning to do…especially in my marriage.
When thinking about posting, let’s help ourselves out by substituting the word “debate” (which insinuates teaching) with the word “dialogue” (mutual learning). Hopefully, we’ll ask more questions so we can fully understand the other person’s perspective. Otherwise we end up offering useless, misguided, advice.
Another thing to think about: If you want to be a teacher/consider yourself wise…HEADS UP!
James 3:1 – teachers will be judged extra strictly
Also…
Galatians 6 & 1 Corinthians 8 – “strong” Christians with “superior knowledge” are to make room on their strong shoulders so they can carry their weaker sibling’s burdens…they’re not called to add burdens by simply saying “you’re doing that wrong” and walking away.
Let’s ask ourselves: why am I commenting? Is our answer “I want to help, I want to be a catalyst for growth in this person’s life”? Then, remember that rarely has a person’s life been radically altered by an impersonal comment. Use a different tool to love someone toward growth.
Remember,
“evil words come from an evil heart and defile the person who says them. For from the heart (comes a lot of crap)” Matthew 15:18-19
“…if I knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn’t love others, what good would I be?” 1 Corinthians 13:2
“Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples” John 13:35
“…all we are saying is, give peace a chance” John
Thanks for living life for God, Joy, and inspiring others to do the same!
Really great thoughts Joy. There is certainly a lack of rhetorical sensitivity in our interweb world. The keyboard tends to bring out our inner Pharisee if we aren’t careful. The best we can do as believers is to lead by example.
You rock.
I love this Joy and i really love you! so grateful that you are out there in the blogging world saying whats needs to be said. You are lovely.
Thanks for being a leader Joy! All great leaders are brave in share their thoughts and messages, even if that means they will face opposition. I loved learning myths about communication back at PSU. One of the myths that stood out to me was the idea that you have to agree with someone to have good communication. As you know this is false, you can totally disagree with someone and have great communication as long as it does not go into name calling or blaming. None of us are ever going to be perfect but I am grateful you are sticking your neck out there for this generation !
Beautiful, beautiful closing thoughts, Joy. You are quite the rhetorician! 🙂 Though it is discouraging to know that there are brothers and sisters who are willing to post hurtful comments, I am encouraged to know that your words are reaching so many. Also, I’ve noticed a recent swell of similar blogs and messages hitting the Internet this month: a movement of the Father, perhaps 🙂 Be well.
Thank you for sharing Joy. Well thought out and well stated. I completely agree. To me, there really is no reason for hurtful comments – they do nothing other than bring discouragement to another. To not be able to see someone’s reaction/emotion (the harm/hurt that is done to another) is a dangerous thing. When you say something hurtful to someone’s face and you see what it does to them – it causes you to feel bad (or at least respond emotionally) as well. When you share discouragement behind a screen, it is easy to continue to do so without ever understanding the gravity of your words.
Thanks John!! Agreed.
thanks so much for sharing Joy! I so agree with your closing comment. Being able to love others in such a way that even disagreements become testimonies of the way God’s love is reflected in his people is such a challenge. I enjoy your blog, and the insights you share on relationships, (esp the ones with your parents, they’re awesome!-and the blogs too) and read it often. Keep writing and God bless you lots.
Kimberly Inskeep thinks...
Pure Wisdom . . . well done.
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