I’m going to answer this question line by line. So if you want to get the gist of her question, then read all the non-bolded lines first. It’s a game for your eyeballs. You’re welcome.
First order of Biz: Men, I would LOVE for you to say what you think this man might be thinking from your perspective. And I would also say to you men, if you find yourself doing something similar to the dude she describes, I just want to let you in on a little secret..
ANY information you can relay can be so helpful if you are in an ambiguous relationship. Even if that information is, “I’m processing things right now, but I want you to know I AM thinking about our friendship, relationships or whatever this might or should be…”
Even stating your lack of clarity will give some level of confidence to the other person because at least they know you are thinking about it which lets them feel a little less like they are taking crazy pills.
I may simply be answering Kristin’s question based on my own experiences, but hopefully what I’ve learned will help.
Men: I present to you, the making of taking crazy pills…
Photo Credit: Ian Pratt
Dear Joy,
I met a guy about five months ago and really like him.
YEAH! That’s fun.
I didn’t really want to like anyone, because I didn’t want to be open to emotional hurt and rejection, but prayed about it and felt that God was leading me to let my walls down around this guy.
That’s a step in the right direction! Letting our walls down can lead us to getting hurt, but it’s also the route to being known. Way to knock down dem’ walls!
We have grown a lot closer over the past five months, but I am not sure how he feels about me.
I’ve been there.
He calls or texts almost every day wanting to spend time with me, but has never made any comments about liking me romantically. He always texts or calls me first to see what I want to do and then invites the rest of our close friends to join.
I can safely say, he likes you–but to what extent, I’m not sure. He obviously likes you MORE than the other friends in the group since you get the first call and get to make the party-planning shots! He’s obviously wanting to know you more.
I don’t understand why he wants to spend time with me if he doesn’t like me…
I repeat, he does.
…and I don’t really want to have a “defining the relationship” conversation because a) I don’t want to initiate it, I think the man should and b) I don’t think that those types of conversations ever lead to relationships, only awkwardness in a friendship.
a) I talk about the pro’s and con’s of pursuit in the series I have listed below, but I wouldn’t necessarily equate him initiating this type of conversation as a make or break on what type of man he is. Yes, there is great comfort and confidence that comes when someone makes their intentions clearly known. But have grace for a couple things:
b) I would disagree. It could be the very thing that just opens the door for him to feel confident that you are interested. Check out what Tim Keller’s wife did in the “Feelings for a Friend” post I also have listed below.
At the same time, it is driving me crazy emotionally to have him flirt with me and seek my attention and time without knowing if he likes me. I don’t know how to guard my heart and yet be emotionally vulnerable and open to a relationship with him at the same time.
This is a tough tension, but watch the “Guarding Your Heart” video as I think that will help give you clarity on what that really means.
Any advice?
Well, everything I said above… but also the reality that you might get hurt. You might live in ambiguity for months and months or you might have a conversation and he might get weird. Either way, you know that you like him and he’s the type of man you want to pursue something with so for that, you will just have to keep your heart open. But remember, if it DOESNT work out, that doesn’t necessarily mean you guys did something wrong. We date and get to know people and in that we should hopefully gain more insight about ourselves, others, and God’s unique design of relationships, but you can’t find that out if you start stacking those bricks and building those walls back up.
From my heart that has stacked a few bricks in my day,
Joy
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Be open to love Olivia! haha… maybe he is fishing about your friend in hopes that you’ll scream from a balcony, “No, I’m the one you love!” (-: Jk.
We’d only been dating a couple months when my (now) wife turned to me in the car and blurted out, “If you’re gonna break up with me, let’s just do it now, and get it over with!” In fact, I thought she was wonderful, and I had no plans to break up. Her comment came out of being hurt by her college boyfriend. She was beginning to be emotionally invested, and couldn’t stand the prospect of being hurt again. I guess this was her way of being proactive. (By the way, we’ve been married 29 years now)
Anyway, fear of being hurt can really twist you up and make you see and hear things that aren’t there. I wouldn’t have known the depth of my wife’s hurt and fear if she hadn’t said that. So I would encourage you to be candid with this guy. Let him know what you’re thinking – I guarantee he probably doesn’t have a clue, and would appreciate the chance to respond to your legitimate feelings. Good luck!
Yes — great insight Dave. Although I fear I’ve yelled that before and guys have said, “Ok.” hahaha… I think for me I need to learn “how” to be honest. And it’s so true that our past relationships can paint the future ones and we need to remember that the people we are with now, are not THOSE people.
Ugh, I quickly scrolled to the bottom to see if any guys have responded to this; alas, not yet. This scenario is very similar to a friendship I had with a guy a few years ago. I may not have been receiving texts and calls everyday but it certainly was more often than any other guys was. Long story short, I turned out to be the friend-girl he wanted to hang out with while he was actually playing-hard-to-get-girl, who was in our friend circle. Part of me has always wondered to what extent he used my friendship. Hindsight is 20/20, so there were certainly some signs he wasn’t romantically interested in me, but I honestly feel I could have written this inquiry word-for-word back then. I did not have a DTR and I’m grateful I didn’t confess my feelings because thankfully I’m still really good friends with both of them (now married). Not saying this is the case for the girl who wrote in, I’m just sympathizing with how agonizing it can be.
Sorry Dave, didn’t see your post when I started typing this.
Also meant to say he was PURSUING playing-hard-to-get-girl
Yes Christabelle this does happen. And while you are grateful you didn’t confess your feelings, I think it would have been ok to ask for clarity. Either way, the confusion is real and I’m sure we’ve all been in the position of confusing someone. The line between friendship and romantic interest can be crossed for one party one night while the other is still back in friend zone. I am sorry though if you felt like you were used. That’s never a good feeling but I am impressed by your maturity and ability to be friendly and friends with them today. That shows strong character on your part that few others would do.
I am in the exact same situation, with a few variations because we don’t text or call all the time because face to face talking is the best. My question is where along the lines to you initiate a DTR conversation or even how do you just casually drop the idea that you are confused? I keep getting told that if he was interested he would have made a move already. Maybe I am not giving enough signals out?
Hey Emily – Great question. I can’t tell you when/where or if you should but I think “how” is what is important. If you sense you are going to get an attitude towards this guy you obviously think highly enough to be interested in, then I think just stating how you are feeling (in person since that’s what you are comfortable with and minimizes non-verbal miscommunication) simply and kindly should help. Phrases that are not accusatory like, “Hey, I hope you know I really admire you and enjoy spending time with you. My friends have said you probably aren’t interested in me if you haven’t said anything at this point, but just in case they are wrong, I figured maybe it was best if I asked you if you had given any thought to our friendship.” I would also check out the links to the other posts listed at the end of this and hunt around for more…. This is not an infrequent question. (-:
p.s. And if you want a guys perspective, Andrew below had some thoughts. (-:
I think you should talk to him. Why live in a constant state of confusion and frustration when a five minute conversation could settle it one way or another?
I get that girls prefer the guy to initiate, but sometime, he just needs a little more help on the girl’s side to convince him that it’s worth the risk to pursue her. My grandma had to put the moves on my grandpa to make that happen, and they’ve been happily married for more than 50 years. My best friend’s wife had to put the moves on him to make things happen, and they just had their 2nd anniversary.
Basically, I think girls should tell the guy how they’re feeling. As awkward as that might be, it’s better than dealing with months of emotions trying to figure out if he’s really interested or not. Who knows? That awkward five minute conversation could be the key to walking down the aisle, and not as a bridesmaid!
Haha thanks Andrew. Great stories! I told Emily from the comments above to read your words.
Such a tricky subject, even for us guys. There is a segment of us I will call the “nice guys” (we always finish last and never get the girl – HA). We want to be in a relationship but confidence isn’t one of our strong points. He probably loves (yes, I said love) this girl but fears destroying a great friendship. He would rather be platonically attached for a lifetime than ruin the friendship with a failed relationship. I understand, I’ve been there. My advice: work the gossip mill to find out his feelings for you. You may need to get your friends and his friends to put some feelers out. If he really does like you, some good ol’ fashion peer pressure from his guy friends may be needed.
It could also be that he isn’t the kind of guy that will jump into a relationship with someone he hasn’t known for a while. The few relationships I’ve been a part of (when I actually tried to have a social life) I knew the girls for at least a year before going on a date. That’s just how I was raised. Dating wasn’t taught to me to be a casual thing. It was a serious step in the relationship scale. These last 5 months could be part of his progression toward a relationship. In this case, give it time and let it grow. Also, the peer pressure thing…
Then there is the other option: He likes you but not in that way. One of my best friends is a girl I’ve known for well over ten years. We get along great, but there is no physical attraction between us. It is a brother-sister like relationship. For years people kept telling us we should be married. We would laugh and cringe at the thought. Thankfully she got married earlier this year. So people can stop thinking of us that way.
Based on this note, I would guess it was the first option. The guy just isn’t great at communicating his feelings and doesn’t have a great deal of confidence when it comes to relationships. This, however, is a great guy! He will be one of the most faithful and committed men you have ever dealt with. He just needs that push from his friends and encouragement from you to take that step into a relationship. Don’t put too much pressure on him though. That could drive him in the opposite direction. Make sure the peer pressure is one-on-one from his closest friend.
Good words Nathan — there are so many different personality types out there and while a five minute direct conversation can do the trick, it’s also SO great when there are some of his guy friends who will push him into confidently addressing the situation. But regardless of personalities, I think everyone just gets nervous to address these things! Putting your heart out there or taking stock of your feelings can be scary.
To answer the question, “does he like me”? I think it depends. Depends on what kind of guy he is like. There are plenty of good reasons why he might want to be friends only. Here’s a few reasons:
(1) he was with someone before and it went badly so he’s not ready (or he’s just struggling or focused on something else in his life)
(2) he has other gal friends, girls he hangs out with (and they are all just friends)
(3) he’s lonely, perhaps he just likes company and you happen to be available, and a good friend
(4) he values your friendship, and has no thought of where it will lead and not really thinking about it (ie., he’s totally clueless to your feelings)
But also, if you are still getting to know him, and he doesn’t fit into any of the above perhaps Joy’s comments about his approach are right on… maybe he thinks he’s ALREADY telling you something by calling you so often. Instead of defining the relationship so clearly first, you could respond with a signal back that you might be interested. For example, bring up the subject of relationships, maybe past relationships, and see what he thinks about them.
No matter whether to wait it out or to pursue something depends on your situation and your urgency. If you can’t just be friends with someone you like so much, I think the answer is absolutely clear, don’t waste anymore time and end the needless anxiety and analysis. Because if you find someone else in the future or he find someone else, then it will hurt far more by losing him as a friend later than making things clear now.
Good insight and perspective Mike! There is an interview I did of a couple that will be going up in the next few weeks and she did JUST what you suggested. Asked him about relationships and kind of fished around for where he was at and the whole time he was COMPLETELY clueless that she would ever be interested in him because he thought she was out of his league. I can’t wait for everyone to hear their story.
Well,
First off, Joy, I think you’ve got a great set of things for this woman to think about. Guys definitely don’t like being rejected and I can imagine wondering what this girl is thinking. The guy likely does not realize that this girl likes him so much (a lot it seems). On the front of the DTR (defining the relationship) conversation… I was in a similar situation with a girl a few years ago. I liked the girl, was very comfortable around her, but I wasn’t really thinking about dating her (because of stuff I was working through at the time and because I didn’t know if our differences would work out). She initiated the conversation that lead to us dating for a couple weeks. In that time I found out that I was ready to date (something I wasn’t quite sure about), I did really enjoy being around her, but that we weren’t a great fit. It took chancing things with our friendship to find out that it didn’t work romantically. One note here, we were the only two single members of a small group, so we talked a lot there and on service projects together. After we broke up, I left that group for another and she was engaged to an old friend of hers in the next year.
Following that experience I became much more aware of my own tendency to spend time with women who I liked, but without pursuit because I hadn’t wanted to lose their friendship. It really sucks to lose a friendship when things don’t work out. Through my experiences I’ve now not lost the sense of fear associated with what might happen if things don’t work out, but have complimented it with a greater desire to greater desire to go for it with the awesome women I meet. It’s going to work out eventually (that I believe) and then I’ll have plenty more to work through as I learn about myself and pursue my wife the rest of my life.
I hope this helps a bit…
Yes Nick! So great. I think it definitely is a real thing to not want to hurt our friendships but at the same time, we should be able to date well and on some level, be friendly with each other. (I address this in my “can guys and girls be friends” series. But as you have stated, ultimately these are quality people and do we want to find a spouse or have a bunch of friends? (Who by the way, will most likely end up getting married to someone else if we don’t give it a shot.) Ending of a friendship is always a risk, but I would rather have a husband than a friend. Can I get an amen?!?! haha.
Amen Joy… except that I want wife of course. I’ve recently moved to a place I’ve never lived (like Portland, which I do miss), so I don’t have close friendships with single ladies who I often see. I think that might be a benefit for me now I desire to find a wife and be married. I just need to figure out a bit better what I should be picky about and how I need to grow to become a better man with realistic and right hopes/expectations.
As a general rule, there are people at every point on the spectrum, for both guys and girls. It’s easy to say “Guys” do X and “Girls” do Y, but more often then not that’s an over simplification.
The way I might approach this is to play the Devils advocate, imagine the roles reversed, can you think of a time when a girl has frequently contacted and planned events and activities with a guy? I can.
The reasons a guy would do that are as varied as why a girl would do that.
Additionally, people often do things without thinking, he may not consicously be contacting you all the time because he knows he interested in you. Perhaps he just knows he has a good time with you, so he wants to spend time with you, all before his interest in you is fully formed.
I think if it’s really driving you crazy, then as friends getting to know each other it’s maybe fair to talk about past experiences dating without it being about your potential relationship explicitly. That way you can get a feel for their heart and where they are at without putting either person is awkward territory.
Yes — another great suggestion. Mike suggested something similar in the comments above about fishing around about their interest in dating. Personalities are different, but I do think his daily communication speaks to some level of interest whether he is aware of it or not. Now she just needs to convince his sub-conscious that he is in love with her, right? Some hypnosis or something? (-;
Basically you are asking the hardest question if all. The *Read*. How does one navigate it. It’s a 14.3 on a 1-10 scale. The answer I think is in consistancey in your behavior and showing your real person and pulling back that *best foot forward* foot. If you are on your best behavior every time- all the time, then you are still at the starting point. You must let yourself develop in front of your person of interest. Sharing the good and not so good. Remember Imperfect people are all there is to choose from. I would rather have several relationships expire due to open communication than come to that place where we stall for years at 1000′ ft. I could go on for an hour more on the subject but my dinner business meeting is walking into the restaurant. Open but not heavy. Free to like and free to love and maybe it is returned to you forever — with God’s best for you.
Great thoughts James — Thank you. Make sure you tune in in November when I post my interview with Eric Metaxas. He has differing views on the “Best foot forward” approach than what you have here but I think both have wisdom. I think the chat will be good food for thought for all of us.
As a guy the thought of letting a girl know you are interested can be the most terrifying thing ever. As a college student I thought I’d be out of my awkward stage but in reality I’m so awkward it’s impressive. But from my standpoint it’s hard to say cause some guys can be straight forward. For myself it’s hard for me to even get to admit I like being around a certain girl more then others. To be vulnerable and pursue a girl in a respectful manner is hard. No matter how confident the guy is it’s difficult because no one likes rejections.
I’ve been learning to be honest and straightforward and hopefully with a lot of prayer and wisdom you find what you’re looking for. If he’s the one great that’s so awesome and if he’s not then great you’ll have another chance it’s not game over in life. As a guy who has a crush on a girl who doesn’t notice me .. It’ll get easier over time. Praying the best for you …
“I’m so awkward it’s impressive.” – I LOVE THIS! haha so good and your words are wise and from a place of understanding. Thank you for contributing to the conversation!
This is such a tough place to be! I read this letter and was like, “umm… did she look into my diary?!?”
I went through a similar situation a few years back… and it did end up with us dating for about 6 months. However, in that time, I moved and we became long distance and he was unsure if “us” would work long-term or not, so things ended. And that was rough because obviously our friendship took a major hit and I missed having my friend.
Fast-forward 3 years later and we became friends again and chatted about the past and the whole cycle started again, so this time I definitely spoke up quickly cause it was hard for me to be okay with feeling so confused and uncertain. He said he still wasn’t sure of long-term with us and didn’t want to risk hurting me or losing our friendship. So we’ve stayed friends. Four years later, we’re still friends and while we don’t talk every day or anything, that cycle is kind of beginning again. At the moment, I’ve gotten peace about where I am in life and I’m content with our friendship so I don’t see the need to push a DTR deal. But I do wonder what’s up. Does he want a relationship and is just letting fear get in the way or what?!
Loved the guy perspectives… although none really provided much clarity. It just proves that guys are just as complex as girls are! 🙂
He likes you. He’s probably just trying to figure out whether you really like him. The other friends aspect keeps things safe. But you’re probably looking at this being the status quo until you either provide him with irrefutable evidence of your feelings or get tired of it.
And if you’re not a fan of the “defining the relationship” talk, you can always use your friends to find out what’s what. I mean, you’re already sort of using them already. They’ll probably be relieved that something is actually happening and they can stop going bowling with you guys all the tie.
All the time. I hate it when typo kills my jokd.
ahahaha… so close, so clot.
Hey, this is Kristin, the girl who wrote the letter this post is about. I did break the ice and initiate a “DTR” with my friend. He said he was interested but wasn’t ready for a relationship and then a few weeks later stopped talking to me all together. Without any explanation we went from best friends to the point where he wouldn’t even make eye contact with me. Not sure what he was thinking. I gave him space and stayed only friendly with him after our chat…still confused and noe I lost a friend and am deeply hurt by him. Not only that, but he also started hanging out no stop with another girl just like we used to.
I’m sorry that didn’t work out for you. I had a very similar thing happen to me about this time last year. I had a good friend that I decided to ask out. She said she had thought about it but decided it probably wouldn’t work. After that, things got pretty weird between us, and we finally ended the friendship.
Unfortunately, this is the risk we take when we try to turn a friendship into something more than that, but we are required to take that risk if we ever want to move out of the friend zone. And going back to my previous comment, you now know the status of your relationship. There isn’t any more confusion about what is going on. I know that probably doesn’t make you feel much better right now, but ultimately it will.
Keep pressing forward! You’ll find the right guy!
P.S. Tip for Christmastime: Avoid listening to the song “All I Want For Christmas Is You”! Believe me, that won’t make you feel any better!
Thanks for the insights Andrew. Also, I’m sorry but that is my FAVORITE Christmas song. I listen to it year round. haha.
Great discussions.
It was very strong and mature of you to decide to break the ice. I had a similar situation before but right before I was planning on giving the”talk”, I felt God was telling me to just simply focus on Him and trust in Him that He will reveal His perfect plans. I started to pray for the both of our hearts and fully surrender in Him no matter what the outcome may be.
You may be hurting this season but I’m sure when you look back you’ll be glad to see how God has delivered you and worked in you. God is always good and he has everything planned already, including a man’s heart.
Great discussions.
It was very strong and mature of you to decide to break the ice. I had a similar situation before but right before I was planning on giving the”talk”, I felt God was telling me to just simply focus on Him and trust in Him that He will reveal His perfect plans. I started to pray for the both of our hearts and fully surrender in Him no matter what the outcome may be.
You may be hurting this season but I’m sure when you look back you’ll be glad to see how God has delivered you and worked in you. God is always good and he has everything planned already, including a man’s heart.
Olivia thinks...
I find this post humorous because this sounds like a good guy friend of mine. I’m not interested in him…and he asks for advice on whether or not he should pursue one of my best friends. But everything else this girl said sounds like him. Ha. Though I like to keep thinking he isn’t interested in me.
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